Episode #19 - The Marketing Journey w/ Dani Kimble

In this episode Carey and Lindsay sit down with Dani Kimble from Azelie Marketing to talk about how she creates effective branding and marketing strategies for independent agencies, how the culture of an agency plays a huge role, and what she has learned from doing the same in her family's restaurant, Menches Bro's. 

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Transcript: 

Lindsay Wallace:

Hey mom, how's it going?

Carey Wallace:

You know, Lindsay, today is a Friday, but in a couple of ways, it feels a little bit like a Monday. I'm not going to lie. We've encountered a couple little technical issues, but other than that, you know, the day is fantastic. I'm going to get ready to have a fabulous weekend with your dad back in town and we get to have some great weather. How about you?

Lindsay Wallace:

It's today is a very Friday Friday for me because I'm actually going to see Taylor Swift, which is the biggest treat that this year could possibly hold for me. I couldn't imagine a better Friday for myself. So I am super excited to go do that this weekend. But I'm also really excited and today is a special day because we have one of the most awesome people on with us today. Is it azeali marketing? Azeal marketing? How do you say it?

Dani:

Azelie

Lindsay Wallace:

Azelie marketing. How are you today, Danni?

Dani:

I'm doing well, how are you?

Lindsay Wallace:

Very good, very good. So I wanna jump right in because I have so much I wanna talk to you about. You have been such a great mentor to me and given me so many great tips along the way since we met less than a year ago. It feels like we've known each other for much longer than that, I feel like. So give us a little bit of intro into how you found the insurance industry and what you do here.

Dani:

Yeah, sure. Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for having me on. It's such an honor to be on with both of you because, Carrie, you were one of the first people that really inspired me as a woman in the insurance industry to pursue a career in this area. I always looked up to you. And then now meeting Lindsay and getting to know her over the last year. seeing the dynamic between the two of you really work together in this podcast, but then also just in the industry. It's just such a powerful thing, I think, to set an example for women in insurance. And so I love this relationship. I love to see the mother-daughter combo, and I'm grateful to be here today, and I'm excited to be here today. But before insurance, actually, I actually had about 10 years of professional dance experience. I have a master's degree in dance. And I ended up blowing my knee out towards, like towards the end of my career, I blew my knee out. And then a couple of years later, I blew the knee out again. And so the doctor was like, okay, you know, it's time for the reconstructive knee surgery. And that really put an end to my dance career. And so I started kind of researching and exploring like, dance was all I knew. Dance was my entire background from age four. I was always involved in the performing arts. And so, restarting something completely fresh was not something that I was looking forward to, but I started looking for creative type work. And that's when I landed into or looking for jobs around marketing. And so I applied for a couple like marketing entry level positions and landed on a marketing coordinator role where I was invited to interview for a local insurance agency at the street. And I literally just had my surgery. So I was in a cast from my hip all the way down to my ankle. My leg had to be 180 degrees. I wasn't supposed to be driving. So I like rolled this towel and stuck it under my hip so my leg could stay straight. And I drove into the interview. And so I always say I stumbled into insurance because I literally just crouched into the office. I looked totally pathetic. But I sat down and I met the people. I learned more about the culture of the firm. And prior to that, I had done some research on just the organization in general. And I could have never imagined myself in insurance, right? Because I come from this creative arts background. And here I was going into what I thought was going to be a really dry industry. The branding felt very dry. you know, there was stock photos all over the website. And I couldn't really feel that emotional connection that I wanted to feel that I would always feel in the arts. And so I did go to the interviews almost as like an audition, just because in dance you're taught, like go to every audition, it's an at-bat, it's a practice. And then when I got there though, I just, I fell in love with the people. I fell in love with the culture, their mission, their story. And there was so much depth and breadth to that. that wasn't being told in the digital space, right? Where I was looking to learn more about that organization on Google and on their website and on their social media pages. I didn't feel any of that in the digital space. But when I walked in and met the people, it was just like, it was so vibrant, it was so alive and it was so rich and they were all very driven around the purpose of really, really protecting their clients very well and building those longterm loyal relationships with them. And so... I immediately saw the opportunity in saying like, wow, like this story is not being told. You know, it's not being told in the marketplace. It's only being told maybe by the clients who are telling other people. And so how can we like scale that up and how can we build a brand that really puts that out into not just the digital space, but also physical space too, and getting more people talking about this brand, getting the community really connected to this brand. And so I always say like, that day when they offered me the job, this agency became my studio, the agents became my dancers, and I was kind of back to being the choreographer and really like morphing and bringing this brand to life. And so that's my journey into insurance. I spent about five, five and a half years there. I had a wonderful experience that the agency met and built incredible relationships there. Was blessed to have a really, really great culture. But I'm also a mother of four little kids. And when I was pregnant with my fourth, I said, OK, I think it's time for me to kind of create some balance and some freedom in my schedule from a traditional corporate schedule. And so that's when I launched my own marketing firm, just to create more of that flexibility and also to work with other small businesses and brands and help them really elevate and grow as well.

Carey Wallace:

So Danny, first of all, thank you for the kind words that you said about me and Lindsay, because I actually view you as a mentor. I mean, honestly, if you remember, two years ago, I went out on my own, and one of the first people I reached out to was you, because I knew absolutely nothing about marketing. I mean, I'm skilled in some areas. I would not say I have a creative bone in my body, where you... That's your strength, that's your superpower. Like you absolutely exude it in everything that you do. And I think I'm not unlike a lot of agency owners that know insurance, they know coverage, they know people, they know relationships. But to translate that to marketing and package it in a way that makes sense is really hard

Dani:

Mm.

Carey Wallace:

actually. You know, like same reason that you thought insurance is dry, how do we do that? I think sometimes we have our own perception of no one's gonna care about this or that's really not what we're gonna do. So I'd love for you to share some tangible ways that you were able to help take marketing in insurance or in general and make it something tangible, measurable and something digestible for someone to be able to implement. Can you talk about what that looked like?

Dani:

Yeah, sure. No, thank you. I appreciate your compliments as well. So one of the things that I found early on in the industry in general, the agency in general, is that most agencies don't have a marketer in-house to really run the marketing, right? And I was one of the only, what felt like one of the only marketers inside an agency. And so... almost building that marketing plan and brand strategy from the ground up. There wasn't really a blueprint out there for me to lean on. There were great resources like Elevate Agency Nation, I really leaned on at that time. And the people that were part of that organization were extremely helpful. And they were teaching agencies how to market, because like I said, they didn't have the marketers in-house doing it for them. So what I started with and what I still recommend to insurance agencies is look at the processes and systems that you already have in place. You don't need to disrupt with brand new shiny object marketing tactics. Instead go straight to those processes and systems and insert marketing into that. And one simple way would be the customer onboarding. strategy, right? So you already have onboarding steps in place and a process in place to onboard your customer, and it may even include something like a welcome email. How can we freshen that up? Maybe it's a video. Maybe it's a video of the agency owner really feeling warm and inviting them into the organization and sharing like what it means to be a client within this agency. and what it means to the agency to have them as a client, like really nurturing that relationship from the very beginning. And then carrying that through the whole first year that they are engaged into the agency so that they are building a relationship through video, through really personalized communications, whether it's through their primary contact or through the CEO of the agency, but to really connect and build that relationship from their first year. because we know a loyal customer, a loyal client in the agency is really, really valuable for an agency from a retention standpoint and ongoing renewal all the way to all of the referrals that they tell others about. And so that's just one simple tactic of like inserting communications and marketing into the welcome and the onboarding experience for the entire year. And then nurturing that relationship to hit those retention goals. and to hit referral goals. And so the KPIs of that over time, this is not gonna happen overnight, but over time, you start tracking your retention percentage and you start tracking the number of referrals that you're bringing in. And so those would be the measurables that you pay attention to. Is that helpful?

Carey Wallace:

Yeah, it's super helpful. And I think that what you said, it was actually really minor, but what you said was really key. It's not gonna happen overnight. You're gonna be marketing for a period of time, and it's not gonna be overnight. So I think that's really important, because I think for someone who's uncomfortable diving into marketing, or they don't know a lot about it, you expect some kind of like, I did this, and then that happened. Well, unfortunately, marketing is a journey. right, or fortunately, whichever way you're going to look at it. And I'll never forget, I actually, you know, I had the fortune of meeting you and the agency that you worked in and getting to experience the culture firsthand, but also online. And I will tell you it was very consistent. what you saw online and then what you actually experienced when you walked in. So part of it is just being authentic to who you are and putting that out there so people can experience it when they haven't met you yet, right?

Dani:

Yes.

Carey Wallace:

And for people that don't know how to do that, what's an example of something they could do to make that happen? How do you package that? other than your customer experience, what's another way that you can do that and do it really well?

Dani:

Sure, so, you know, this may be a little broad too, and we can get specific as I kind of talk through it, but really looking at, there's a difference between branding and marketing. And I think there's a lot of confusion between the two. So branding is more focused on like the organizational like substance. What is your purpose? What is your competitive advantage? How do you position yourself in the market? How do you differentiate yourself from others in the market? Are you just differentiating on price? And if you're just differentiating on price, like it feels like a losing game. Like what is the value that you can add beyond, get a quote and we'll save you X number of percentage or X number of dollars, right? Like what is the true value that you can offer? And that differentiates you and separates you from the others. And going through it, incorporating that into your mission and your values and... that's where that culture piece comes into play. And that's why I always say like, there's such an intersection between branding and culture. Then it's taking all of that substance that you've built with the brand and moving it into more of a marketing. So that the marketing side of it is to attract and convert clients. But if you don't have that substance and that brand foundation and that brand strategy solid, it is really hard. to go and market to them and ask them for, you know, their insurance policy or their deck pages if they can't see the underbelly of it. So simple things like even showcasing what's happening inside social media is a great place to really bring that brand to life and to show others what that brand is. Facebook, Instagram, if you're more of a personal lines agency, Facebook and Instagram are great platforms for that. If you're more of a commercial lines or a group health insurance agency, LinkedIn is a perfect opportunity, maybe a little bit of Instagram too, but LinkedIn, it tends to be just a little bit more professional setting to really showcase like what your brand and your culture is really about. And then the marketing hits much easier, much softer, and still is way more effective and produces a much better ROI when that branding substance is really strong.

Lindsay Wallace:

I think right now in what's happening in just the industry in general with remote working and all these things, that becomes, I know in my job, that becomes so much harder when all of your staff are in different places. Like how many pictures of my computer can I post on our company LinkedIn page? How do you get around this with some of your clients? What are some of the strategies that you use to still show the culture when... everybody's in different places.

Dani:

You know, I remember right during the pandemic, we were all remote and my whole strategy was focused on culture, like showcasing the culture. And there was so much in-person relationship that we've built within that firm. So, but I do remember one time when we completely weren't remote, I had everybody get on and do the Macarena to one of the

Lindsay Wallace:

Hahaha

Dani:

trending TikTok songs on Teams and I recorded it and I posted it. and just like brought like a little bit of light and like happiness and like humor to a really dark time for a lot

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

of people, right? So that's just one example of like, how many creative ways can you spin it? Yes, you can only do so many pictures of your desk and your computer. One time, like I bought, we have chickens. We have, I live on a little hobby farm, so we have chickens and we had the baby chicks. And so I had the website of the insurance firm up. and I had the baby chicks sitting on my computer and I took a picture and that was like our Easter post, right? So it's Just like coming up with like creative angles for how you approach the content.

Lindsay Wallace:

Yeah. You introduced me to a new topic. We were on the same flight from a conference we were both at in North Carolina and everybody else was driving. So it was only you and I who were going to the airport and I totally took advantage of this situation. I'm like, heck yes, I have an Uber security line and waiting at the gate with Dani Kimball. How many questions can I ask her? Ready, go. don't know if you remember this, but I literally took notes in my phone while you were talking to me

Dani:

Oh.

Lindsay Wallace:

because I just found that time so valuable. You introduced me to naivety, and I think I'm saying that right. I always say it wrong when I say it to people. Naivety being a superpower. I would love for you to share the reason behind that because that's something that really helped me when I'm 23. I don't really have a professional brand. outlined. I'm not specifically working on it, but I think I have some stuff to share. The only reason I think I have stuff to share is from that conversation. I walked into that conversation thinking, I'm 23, I've been working full-time for a year. What the heck does anyone want to know from me? You helped me realize, no, you're at an amazing point to start sharing. I'd love for you to share your viewpoint on that. and maybe help someone else who's in the same situation as I was back then.

Dani:

Yeah, sure. No, and I still really feel strongly about that. Naivety, naivety,

Lindsay Wallace:

I don't know how to say it.

Dani:

Being that superpower. Because, you know, I think about when I entered the insurance space and I had, I didn't know what a BOP was. I think it took me like two or three years to understand what a BOP was. Lindsay, do you know what a BOP is?

Lindsay Wallace:

I have no idea what a bop is. I was thinking in my head, I have to Google that after this.

Dani:

Yeah. It's a common insurance agency jargon terminology piece, but it's a business owners policy, right? And

Lindsay Wallace:

Okay.

Dani:

so anyways, that's not the point of what I'm about to say. But it's like, there was so much jargon, so much terminology thrown around that I didn't understand exactly like the insurance space at all. And that was the superpower, though. I mean, people would look at some of the stuff we did and probably be like, this this agency is crazy. Like, what are they doing? Right? Like, they're all over video. And, you know, we I had like, dancing going on. We did sock dances to like, for a state associations, like brands and, I mean, all kinds of like, kind of crazy stuff. But it was because like, there was no blueprint for me to follow. There was no like, marketing plan mapped out. And so I just got to be super creative with that. And that's what naivety allows you to do is like, If you don't have the experience to back you up, but you also don't have like a blueprint or a system to follow that's black and white, then you get to build it. And that was the beauty early on for me. But then the deeper you get into the industry, the more of like, what are the best practices? What's the- What's the tactics that are working? And you don't think as creatively because you're kind of just like leaning on everybody else that you know to kind of help you through that. So I think it just breeds creativity more than anything.

Lindsay Wallace:

Yeah, and another thing that you and I talked about is you did not come from a marketing background. I also did not come, don't come from a marketing background. My background's in public health. And then I just got my degree in public administration, which is a lot of communication and leadership, which you need to be a strong marketer. But it's not marketing. I didn't sit around and learn marketing principles that helped me. how to write a marketing plan or how to create brand strategy. So how did you, like, obviously there's things when you come into marketing, do you have to learn, right? Mainly being like marketing strategy, brand strategy, and all of like the principles that come with that. Where did you go to learn those things?

Dani:

Hmm. Yeah, no, that's a really great question. And the CEO, Patrick, he was super, super helpful in introducing me to direct response marketing materials and authors and books that I should be reading articles that I should be subscribed to. So I did invest a lot of time trying to learn marketing from the the leaders of marketing. back in the 80s and 90s, like the copywriters, the legendary copywriters that like had a proven framework for how to drive a conversion, right? So I did a ton of like direct response marketing at the beginning through books, articles, binders of information, honestly, like physical

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

binders with like pamphlets and things to study it. But then also just looking at the marketing around you, especially as we move into a digital space, like paying attention to. If you make a purchase, why did you make a purchase? If you're purchasing a software or subscription, what made you, what drove you to that purchase? Were you reading like five or six testimonials or reviews before you made that purchase? Oh, that's a sign. And you can do more research to further back up with data to show that reviews and testimonials truly help or social proof in general truly helps drive the sale, right? So it's paying attention to what the marketing, what marketing is really working. And then it's following the thought leaders, the authors, the brand builders who, who have proven track record of success to, to kind of learn the foundation and principles that they are really building onto.

Carey Wallace:

So you've definitely talked about some basics. If I'm an agency owner and I'm sitting here, I would hope that they're listening and hearing and absorbing, start with what you know,

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Carey Wallace:

start with what you would want to highlight as being who you are, who the organization is, and what you want your customers to think of when they think of you. That is really the essence of what's going to drive business your way. If you haven't met someone today, are you giving the right impression to them? And is it someone they can connect with and feel like, you know what, I would trust these people. I would want to do my business with them. That's all fantastic. I would be remiss if I didn't ask about your family business and how you've actually stepped into the metaverse with that organization to go. way beyond anything I understand, I will tell you that for sure, but you are leading in that area. I mean, they are growing leaps and bounds. They are, I believe they're in the Akron Airport now, but would you give us a little bit of background on that, Dani, and how you see it connecting to insurance? Because I think so many times people think that's other people. That's other industries. And I disagree. I actually think that there's a space for this in insurance as well. So please, please, please tell us about that.

Dani:

Yeah, sure. Thank you for asking that question. So again, I would I would also credit this to naivety too. I have never really formally marketed a restaurant before until two years ago, to be honest. I mean, yes, I grew up in the restaurant industry. Let me just step back. My mother is one of 10 kids and together they found the original hamburger recipe, which was invented by my great, great grandfather, Charles Menchus and my great, great uncle, Frank Menchus. And just recently actually, well, let me step back for a second. We opened restaurants in the 90s. We've been serving the original recipe in our stores for a long time. And we talk about the story quite a bit, but within the last five years, the research came out around... the invention and the claims of the invention of the burger and there's about three or four different claims around the world And then it all kind of boiled down to it's in a book called hamburger dreams but it all kind of boiled down to Charles and Frankman just being the inventors and when that research came out I Again was like there's like really There's roots here. Like this is a real story. It's like a real credible story. And it's from, it's within my family, right? And we already have the restaurants. We've built a good community relationship. How do we get this brand from local to global? How do we allow people around the world to experience the first original burger, taste the first original burger? And so that's when I kind of just stepped in and started playing, to be honest. I just started playing with the brand. That's when we explored a web three project. So we did launch a little it's called a little mensch membership NFT program But it is very similar to like a Panera rewards membership or a Starbucks rewards membership And we operate it very similar to that structure. It's just more Tailored it lives on the blockchain, you know But you know it comes with discounts it comes with exclusive items and menu items and things of that sort. So that's been a fun project and also exposed me. I really was fascinated by where Web3 and the metaverse and how that's going to play into marketing and how we can align that to small businesses. I think it's a great opportunity for small businesses. It is a little, honestly, it's a little shaky. It's a little shaky ground. Everything isn't fully established. security, there's a number of different things that I know they're looking into regarding cryptocurrencies and stuff. So maybe I was a little too ahead with it. And I'm glad that we did it and our customers who have the memberships reap the rewards and benefits. My question that I always ask myself is like, does it need to live on the blockchain? No. It doesn't. I mean, yes, they have a cool like graphic and eventually they could like resell that, you know, as the burger story continues to grow. And so I'm curious to see what happens over the next five to 10 years. But I could have done that on web two platforms, probably a lot easier. So I say the point of that is just like exploring and testing new ideas and new strategies and that, you know, choosing the ones that. aren't going to like put your business at significant financial risk if it doesn't work, right? But then testing and experimenting and really evaluating, measuring the data to see what's working, what's not, and whatever's working from a marketing standpoint, whatever you sense. Actually, I wouldn't even say hard number data. If you're feeling like qualitatively that this is heading in the right direction, you're getting good feedback, you're getting good messaging around it and people are responding and connecting to it. That's enough data to start pushing it forward to get more measurable data and really decide which programs you want to grow and scale. So

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Dani:

with the restaurant as an example, it's like now we have like seven or eight different revenue streams that were initially just a brick and mortar restaurant, we have seven to eight different revenue streams, and then we can scale three or four of those. We have a virtual kitchen. We have the, we're part of the Akron Canton Airport now. We do spice packs and mench sauce through e-commerce and we sell that online, right? So it's diversifying that income stream and testing to see which one of these are really going to take off. And so that's kind of where we're at now.

Lindsay Wallace:

I love that you brought up testing because that's a huge part of marketing and it's the scariest part of marketing also, right? And it's the most complex because if you're talking about doing A-B testing on an email where part of your email list is going to get one thing and the other is going to get another, that is like an extra step, right? A lot of people and people in insurance who are doing marketing, they're doing it to just get it done.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Wallace:

They know it's something that they need to do, so they do it to get it done, but they're not actually thinking, how can I use this to my advantage? What is your rule of thumb for how much testing you should do based on how much should you have planned marketing to do and how much should you test?

Dani:

Hmm. That's a great question. I always like apply the 80 20 rule to that. 80% map to plan. And I even do this at the beginning of the year, even for my own business and for the businesses that I work with, like 80% of the work we do around marketing is mapped to plan almost to a T. Now we measure it quarterly. And so every quarter you review it and you look and say, what's working, what's not working. What do we need to change? Do the strategies need shifted and changed? So those still can be fluid. But 80% is like your workload is mapped out. 20% is open to experimentation, open to testing. Maybe you have a budget and resources around that as well. But that's important because marketing is evolving and changing so quickly. You look at the social media platforms and how much algorithms shift or change. And like when TikTok was on the rise, and now we don't know if it's gonna be here next year. And all of the different channels that are constantly moving and shifting and changing. And you always have to be kind of at the forefront in marketing, at the forefront to be ready to launch a new strategy or to launch it, do a test run of a strategy and see if that's going to actually be fruitful for you. But if you have, that's when I'll go back to branding. If you have the substance of a strong brand and a mapped out marketing plan, like you can fall back on that and it's still rolling and it's still working. and then it still frees you up to test new ideas and things. So.

Lindsay Wallace:

Right. Well, and you had a great post on LinkedIn. I don't remember exactly what it said, but I remember just of what it said, where you talked about you used to get really caught up in the tactics or not the tactics. No, that's not what you said. You used to get really caught up in the algorithm hacks is what you said. And I got really into the algorithm hacks a while ago and it kind of controlled what I did. for like way more than it needed to.

Dani:

Sure.

Lindsay Wallace:

I followed this guy and he studies the LinkedIn algorithm. I can never remember his name.

Dani:

Me either, but I know who you're talking about.

Lindsay Wallace:

Yeah, and peter might be his name? 

Dani:

Maybe.

Lindsay Wallace:

I don't know what his name is, but he posts like really great stuff. And one of the key things that I latched onto and I can't get out of my head is that most people are on LinkedIn in the morning. And so I'll find myself having something to post after 12 o'clock noon and not posting it. And that makes no sense.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Wallace:

If I'm posting something that's of value and of real substance, if I post it at two o'clock in the afternoon, it shouldn't matter because it's still going to find the people whoi t should go to.

Dani:

Well, let me tell you a quick story about that because I think this is just like mental health in general, but social media is like made to get you hooked onto the platform a little bit. Right? Like that's how they make money is getting more people and more attention to stay there, not to get off the platform. And so I was the same way though, Lindsay. I was posting every morning at 740 AM. And if you saw what my house looks like here at 7.40 a.m., I have three kids that need to get out the door by 8.05. And I have a fourth baby, like, who needs my constant attention. But I know, in quotes, that the algorithm tells me, because based on my data that I'm paying attention to, which is true, 7.40 is the perfect optimal time for me to post. But not just post. Like, yes, I can schedule it. I have to be on the platform. for the next 20 minutes responding to comments. Because if I respond to the comments quickly, then my post performs better. It

got so like, and I realized like, that is not the mother that I wanna be. In my bedroom, on my phone, responding to these while I'm trying to get all my kids ready. That's not the values that I hold as a person, right? As a, from my personal life. And so I like completely, I had to put an end to it. Was it fruitful and did it produce ROI? Definitely, LinkedIn totally works, but you have to really create balance between that personal and professional life and make sure that that is all in check. And that was the number one priority for me. So I'm with you on that. Like I got so hooked into like what was working based on the data that it was interrupting my home life. Yeah.

Lindsay Wallace:

100%, 100%. Well, thank you so much for coming today, Dani. I've learned a lot, so I hope our listeners have learned a lot from this conversation. If they want to reach out and contact you, where can they find you?

Dani:

You know, LinkedIn is the best place to find me. Just if you go to Dani Kimble on LinkedIn, connect with me there, or you can send me a DM and we'll respond there.

Lindsay Wallace:

And if you would like to learn more from Dani, because I know she's not going to say it right now, she puts out an awesome newsletter every Thursday. She's trained me very well to look in my email inbox every Thursday. And I actually almost texted her last Thursday because it didn't come in the morning. It came closer to afternoon. And I was like, where is my email from Dani? I need to learn from her this week.So go subscribe to her newsletter, because she drops some great stuff in there. And It's a great resource to learn more about marketing.

Dani:

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Carey Wallace:

Dani, it's such a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us. And I really look forward to following your career, following and learning from you as well. I appreciate all the help that you've given me over the last two years in learning how to market my small business as well. So I'm really appreciative that you came on and talked with us today.

Dani:

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I was so excited for this conversation just because I love both of you so much. And I'm so excited to see where you, where you take the podcast to end all of the great work you do in the industry.

Lindsay Wallace:

Thanks, Dani.