Episode #20 - Delivering a Premium Experience w/ Jack Wingate

In this episode Carey and Lindsay sit down with Jack Wingate from AllChoice Insurance to talk about how he utilizes technology and virtual assistants in his agency to streamline the sales process and deliver his clients a premium experience. 

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Transcript: 

Lindsay Wallace:

Hey mom, how's it going?

Carey Wallace:

It is going fantastic. I am super happy to be off the road and in my own space and heading into the weekend. So could not be better. How about you, Lynn? How's it going?

Lindsay Wallace:

I'm doing good. I gotta tell you, I'm excited for the conversation we're about to have. Every time I've gotten to be in the presence of our guest today, I've learned more and more about running an agency, technology in an agency, and I even got the pleasure of sitting on stage on a panel with him. So I won't tease you any longer, our guest today is Jack Wingate from All Choice Insurance. Welcome, Jack, how are you today?

Jack:

Thanks for having me, guys. And a happy belated birthday to Ms. Lindsay.

Lindsay Wallace:

Thank you, thank you. Very kind of you! 

Jack:

She's what, like 14 now? 

Lindsay Wallace:

You know, someone made a joke last year at a Christmas party. We were doing a Christmas thing where, you know, you can steal the presents after, and someone got a bottle of red wine that I knew and I really liked. I drink wine often, I really like wine. It's my drink of choice. And... someone made a joke, are you even old enough to have that? Can I see some ID?" And I'm like, guys, I work here full time. I'm a full time grad student. Yes, I'm old enough to drink wine.

Jack:

I no longer get those questions. I'm not sure if it's the gray that gives it away, like the age

Lindsay Wallace:

Hahaha

Jack:

or spots or whatever, but yeah.

Carey Wallace:

I will tell you this, I was recently in Utah and I don't know what you know about Utah, but they card everyone and they're very, very strict about it. Drinking is not, we were in Salt Lake City, so it was not necessarily a dry town, but there's not a lot of drinking that happens there. And I will tell you, I was with Una Roy and she's like, what is the deal, man? Come on, stop carding

Lindsay Wallace:

Hahaha

Carey Wallace:

1. It's not even a compliment anymore. Give me a break. All right? This is ridiculous. So anyway.

Jack:

Yes.

Lindsay Wallace:

So Jack, tell us a little bit about how you found yourself in insurance and your journey so far in the industry for people who don't know you.

Jack:

Gotcha. So, um, went to Appalachian State University where I grabbed a major in finance and because I was not ready to be done with school, I grabbed two extra classes to get a double major and doubled in risk management and insurance, which all, um, APPS state has a great program, right? Which a lot of programs, a lot of North Carolina schools are getting that, um, had zero inclination about, um, the insurance industry nor did I care to be in it. Um, but came out of school, got a job kind of as a telemarketer. We bought and sold mainframe hardware, which obviously I'm not even sure that exists anymore, except in the insurance carrier space where I believe they all still use the same platform. So maybe I could have still made money. Um, I actually let my insurance lapse because I was that guy, you know, in my, um, a fraternity brother of mine was my agent at North Carolina foreign bureau. Stopped in to get it reinstated. And he was like, you happy doing what you're doing? I was like, no. So kind of. got an interview, started Farm Bureau the month and year I got married. So April of 02, um, two years into the Farm Bureau journey, you really need to either decide you're going to be a lifer or you need to, you know, say peace out and do your own thing. So that's what I did. I two years in ish, um, started all choice. Um, that was August 04. Um, my wife gave birth to my middle daughter. Um, that November. So we were broker than broke for, you know, for that. Uh, my wife, we, we made the decision that she was going to stay home and, and help raise the kids, uh, which was, you know, family is what's the important part for us. And, um, so Rob Peter to pay Paul for the first five years, like any good insurance agency will do when you start. And then fast forward, what are we? A patent is 18, almost 19. So we are 18 years old. We'll be 19 in August. I think that's how it works. So yeah, so that, that, that, that brings us here. That's, that's where we're at.

Carey Wallace:

That is an awesome journey. I will tell you, Jack, you are probably one of the agencies that come to mind when I think of an agency that is tech forward, that thinks differently. I love that you have a finance degree. I didn't know that about you. So now I have a whole new, like mad respect for you, which explains a lot actually. Like...

Jack:

some of the questions that I get to ask you.

Lindsay Wallace:

Hahaha

Carey Wallace:

Yeah, like it, it actually explains a fair amount, but talk to me about what made you do that. Cause that's not the typical movement of you start an agency, you're super tech forward, you think about your staffing differently. You, you've really built something that is pretty unique. Tell me, tell me how that occurred.

Jack:

So I, so listen, it was not something that I sought to do upfront. So I mean, when you come from foreign bureau, you, you, you shake hands, kiss babies, all that good stuff. That's, that's how you do business. And probably the first, I don't know, eight ish years of the agency. It was, it was like that. You go out, Hey, can I quote your insurance? I hate that now. I hate, can I quote your insurance? Like that's ridiculous. Um, no one needs a free quote, right? Um, so, but you do that somewhere along the line. So let's add my, I don't know my timeline. Let's say eight to 10 years ago, I was sitting there and I was like, little funny story here. So we, we were with blue, we had a blue cross and blue shield contract. We didn't sell a lot of health insurance because we were just, it was an ancillary product. So our marketing rep came in and I was like, tell me how the top, your top guys do business. And he said, my top person is in New Bern, North Carolina, and he is sitting on a boat 90% of the time. And all his, all his leads come because he's optimized a website and people find him. And I, That sounds like, Oh, let's of course, that's what happens. This was 10 years ago that wasn't there. And I was like, wow. So I look, found the guy, found who made his website. And so we started on the website SEO journey 10 plus years ago. So like I've been creating content and optimizing and knowing what H1 tags are and H2 tags and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, for a long time. Um, probably back in the day, you know, my business partner didn't understand it. He was like, man, you're wasting your time. Let's just go get deck pages and write business. I'm like, no, I really believe in this. Cause just had to be a better way, right? I've just been selling your time. I'm trading time for money when you're in

Carey Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Jack:

that old school, um, model of doing insurance. So, um, started going down that path and I had a CSR working for me and the, we were getting leads to the extent of like, I couldn't get to all of them. I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I could get to them, but it'd be like, four or five days and that just wasn't a good experience. So I started thinking, man, back then, it wouldn't be cool if I could get someone to take the task off of her at a really low dollar amount to do like menial task and let her start handling this. So I ended up giving her like the, she started doing the proposals, but I'm still working 18 hours a day doing endorsements at night because back then. think probably the only game in town for outsourcing was probably wave at the time.

Carey Wallace:

Oh wow.

Jack:

And I mean, really, so I mean, VA's weren't a thing and wave was not like it was cheaper. So we basically, I tell people sometimes it's like, it's not that your idea isn't good or right. It's just maybe not right right now. And so my idea boiling in my head was right. The technology and the things just weren't in place to pull that off. So I mean, realistically start listening to some podcasts five, six years ago, whatever that is. Um, I hear about marble box. Um, so I start going down that route with marble box, which is a different VA concept and it was great. It got our toes wet, kind of introduced some carriers to the fact that someone's logging in from India or somewhere else other than, you know, North Carolina. So you had to jump those, you know, jump those hurdles with carriers and then when COVID hit, we already had that in and we were about to move to agency VA, which is the agency, which is a VA company that I use. Um, and just sort of the rest sort of took off. Now I'm a horrible boss, right? So I will let you run all over me because I don't want to fire you. Like I'm the guy that, that Carrie hates because I am slow to fire. All right. I just, I, It's weird. So I was like, you know what? I've got some really good, I've got a good kind of staff guy that like I can count on. I need, I need someone that doesn't matter whether, you know, they're here today, gone tomorrow, I need like a something going on. So agency VA came in, we had our, we grabbed our first VA. I want to say it's probably now four years ish, something like that. She's still with us to this day. We've added, um, another and, and another. Um, so like. We utilize them, they are part of our team. And we, I mean, you could ask my operations director, he'd be like, oh yeah, he probably should fire me before he fires, you know, that original VA cause she's that value to us. So that, I mean, that's sort of, that's the VA journey. Um, technology wise, I'm late. I'd like to say I'm lazy to this extent. I'm always trying to find the way or the thing that can reduce my time or reduce my staff's time to do the thing. And that might mean that I work 18 hours a day trying to find the thing, but I don't want to manually do the thing for a long time. And so, you know, people will say, well, you just know technology. I can tell you this. You just don't know technology, right? It's not like you were born with that trait. Lindsay probably understands it, you know, in hate. I'm not even going to say inherently. Lindsay's grown up in an age where it's, it's around her more than probably you and I, Carrie.

Carey Wallace:

Sure.

Jack:

But she still has to immerse herself in stuff. So when people are like that, I could never do that because I just don't know it. You get at night, you pop open YouTube and like, I mean, last night I'm looking at chat G I'm looking at videos about how to write content with chat GBT and using the plugins with chat GBT plus, which I mean, I wrote an article today. And you know, it's like, it's just, you just got to immerse yourself. If it's important to you, you'll put in the time.

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Jack:

So. I maybe answered your question and I maybe didn't, but that's where we went right then. All right.

Lindsay Wallace:

Well, I'd love to kind of talk a little bit about what agencies need to adopt in their or yeah, what technologies agencies need to adopt in their agency. So you and I actually sat on a panel. I kind of talked about or alluded to it earlier. But it was at Big Eye, North Carolina's InsureTech conference. And I thought that you answered a question on the panel really well. Someone asked, okay, so I have an AMS that I really like now, what's next? And I thought that you gave them some great advice. So would you share, do you remember what you said?

Jack:

really old Lindsay that I probably and I say a lot of stuff to a lot of people. Now, my guess is it was probably around CRM. Was that what I said?

Lindsay Wallace:

You actually didn't say a specific thing. 

Jack:

tell me what I said and tell me how smart it was, right?

Carey Wallace:

Hahaha

Lindsay Wallace:

Oh man. So you've basically said it's personal to your agency. What are you trying to do? And where are you trying to go? What are you, what's missing is basically what you said. What are you trying to do?

Jack:

I don't know that I can say anything any smarter. So if you want to stop recording now, that's fine.

Carey Wallace:

Hahaha

Jack:

I mean, I think that's probably a good place to stop.

Jack:

No, it's true. Like, you know, it's... I think we, the people in the industry, look, the industry has gotten really, really good because there's a lot of, and I don't mean this in a derogatory fashion, but we've got some talking heads in our industry now, which are great. And we're shedding light on subjects and subject matter that are important. The problem is that we have a lot of people in the industry that if they actually hear about it, they're shiny object syndrome people. It's like... Hey, I just heard that XYZ can give me a new website. I'm going to get that and I'm going to start getting leads. And not how it works, right?

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Jack:

It's just not how it works. You know, so,

Lindsay Wallace:

Right.

Jack:

so I think, you know, but to kind of combat that, what people really need to look at is what is the problem in the agency that one, it keeps me up at night or two, what is it? What is like the quickest, easiest thing that I can win on? Which. I personally think is the first place to start like in order to change, you've got to find a quick win. Right?

Lindsay Wallace:

Yeah, and that was the second part of what you said. You said, it's really hard to do an AMS. Like you need to give your staff a quick win next before you go to do something more complex. You're just gonna make them frustrated is basically layman's terms of what you said. And I thought that that was really interesting. And I would love to know in your agency, how did you build your tech stack? Like, what was your path that you took? Do you remember?

Jack:

Do you remember Jack? Cause you're old. I mean, it's whatever.

Lindsay Wallace:

Hahaha!

Carey Wallace:

Hahaha

Jack:

Um, no, it, so, so realistically, probably the first thing that I did, you know, you get an AMS like the first thing you do. Cause it's like, you know, I'm starting an agency. What do I do? Like the old way of thinking was you get an AMS. I mean, that's the first thing you buy. I can challenge you today and say, maybe that's not the right thing, but that's what it, that's what it inherently was. Probably eight-ish years ago, I signed up for Infusionsoft, which was Keap. And at that time it was me, I had a business partner and one CSR. And I was just like, man, you know, when I look at how online businesses do business, they're using these automations, it's really cool. And so I signed up for Infusionsoft, had zero help, and I'm looking at it and became overwhelmed. And so I scrapped it, like was in about... I don't know, two or three months. And it was just like, it was way too much. Just way too many. It was just the, the possibilities were endless. And I was like, I don't even know. And at the time it was, let's call it 340 bucks a month. I was like, man, that's a lot of money. I mean, like, I don't know. I can keep affording this. I mean, so, I mean, so, I mean, everyone's in a different spot. Right. And so

Carey Wallace:

Sure.

Jack:

the tools were more expensive back then. So I scrapped it going back to my. It wasn't a bad idea. It, the idea just wasn't right right now. Right, so, you know, we fast forward a little bit and. We're, I think we were changing AMS systems, um, away from one of the, the big guys to a, to a different provider. And at that point in time, I was really like, man, I don't feel like I'm giving an experience to my clients that is, is like the experience I get when they shop anywhere else. Cause in insurance we're like, Oh gosh, this is just the way we do it. And you need to bow down to the way that we have always done it. That's just it. Instead of like, okay, hold on. You like to get text messages? Oh, let me give you text messages. You know, it's kind of like, we're like the only business that I know of that is like, no, you've been to my wheel versus the vice versa. So we, we, we signed back up with keep slash infusion soft. And that's when I dug in and I mean, I would work during the day and I would come home at night and work six hours building out automations. Now I wasn't building out the, what most people think of like marketing automations, I was building out automations that I felt I could better my endorsement process. I could better my sales pipeline. I could whatever like actual business process things versus fluffy marketing stuff. So that's, that's sort of the journey. And then from there, sort of like, Oh, I hear this, I'll try this. I

Lindsay Wallace:

Yep.

Jack:

see this, that looks cool. I'll try it. I'll give it a 90 day shot. Cause I think you gotta do anything for 90 days. And thankfully, and this is where this is a problem. A lot of agencies are going to have, I have a, I keep a small staff. Like we've, we've talked about, I have VA's, which they will do whatever you tell them to. Um,

Carey Wallace:

Right.

Jack:

but my, my core staff is very small, but they're used to me changing stuff. They're used to me trying stuff. And I've earned their trust because you have to build trust with your staff to get buy-in because they understand I'm not just doing it to do it. I'm not doing it because I saw a shiny object. There's a purpose. I'm trying to find a way to make their life easier. And so once you're on that, I mean, it's like with your spouse, right? I mean, like you will do certain things with your spouse that you know, he, she has inherent trust that they're like, Oh, I know this. I mean, they have my best interests. It's the same.

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Jack:

I mean, the relationship is the same. So really, and that's just, I've tried things, they don't work. We've tried stuff. They have worked. It's it. And then what I ended up doing, I'm probably going too far here, but it's like, I will throw a lot of stuff at the wall and we will use it. And then my job is then to call it down and try to see, can I take the, what I, the output I'm getting from this one and the output I'm getting from this one. They're pretty similar and they can kind of do similar things. So do I, is there a solution that I can do? one versus two now. So it's, it's like you have 12 different things and I try to boil it down to the, the minimal amount. So I'll shut up.

Lindsay Wallace:

So you said that you built out some automations of the sales processes. What are a couple examples of those?

Jack:

So experience, right? So, um, we would, we, we started originally, and I think our sales pipeline, let's say it had four, like any, everyone has a pipeline, has a sales process pipeline. Everyone has it, whether it's written, whether it's whatever, you do the same thing a lot. So we started off, let's say four of them, like, you know, you got to find, you, once you found the person, you got to get the info, then you got to quote it, then you got to propose it, then you got to close it. So that's where we started in essence. But what we found was sometimes it takes a day or two or three or whatever, that depending upon the risk, you might have time in between those stages. Well, in our society today, you're used to pressing a button and getting what you want. Right? So if you press a button and the delivery is going to be a week, we're now programmed because Amazon or whomever does a good job of going, Hey, look, this was delayed. So you don't think, oh, okay, let's just delay, no big deal. Other than if they weren't sending that, you would be thinking, they lost my order. I might have to find something else. I mean, you, you inherently, we as consumers will go down some negative path because let's be honest, customer service in our day and age has gone downhill, so we always expect the worst. So, you know, so we moved it from four to maybe at seven because we, we determined that even let, let's, I'll walk through an example. We get a lead in, we go to our out for quote stage. So they're getting messages, hey, we got all your information. We're gonna give it to our quote team and they're gonna look and find some options and risks, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So our VA's quote everything. So as soon as she's done quoting with, we'll just talk personal lines, she's quoted five different carriers. She gives all of that info back to our American staff who's gonna propose it and... They're so efficient on the VA route that we had a backlog of proposal preps to do so like, you know, we would have eight to 10 to do a day. We do video proposals. So it's a 20 to 30 minute process of taking the information. Does it fit with this carrier? Even though they give us a quote, it might not, you know, where is this, where does it need to go do the video? Boom. If you got eight in a day to do eight times 30, I mean, you've used up a lot of your day. So we found that people were like, well, you, you got my stuff and you said you quoted it like where. Where's it at? And then we would call them. Well, I went with someone else. You know what I mean? So what we started doing was we implemented preemptive messaging that was like, as soon as it goes into the proposal stage, it's like, Hey, got all your quotes in, we're going to review this with one of my senior advisors. I'm good on, I'm big on team and advisors, right?

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Jack:

Um, we're going to have to make sure that we've got everything, you know, in proper line, it's probably going to be a day before we get it to you. And then let's say two days went by because happy. Right? Stuff happens. Hey, look, sorry. I'm having a hard time getting a hold of Jack. I always make the blame be mine. Like, so AJ will be like, look, this is on Jack. You know, my boss. I like to use it. My boss has, you know, has been busy. I really want him to look at this. So I mean, they're feeling important. It stops phone calls and it keeps people on your pipeline.

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Carey Wallace:

The thing is the absence of communication creates doubt. So you basically are taking away that gap

Jack:

Mm-hmm.

Carey Wallace:

and creating a way that your team can communicate without taking their time. So what I hear in what you're talking about is we've adopted technology to streamline the process, to stay in touch with our customers and do it for the cheapest, fastest, most efficient way. That's really been your focus of What do I need to put in my agency? Is that

Jack:

Correct.

Carey Wallace:

right?

Jack:

Oh yeah. And look, if I had, so there's, I have an agent friend down the street. We, we run very similar shops from a mindset standpoint. Like we want to deliver, um, a, uh, a premium experience. So we, we like to consider ourselves as premium insurance agents. Like we, this is why we do, like you're getting an umbrella of this and we're going to educate, you know, our new tagline is serve, educate, protect. for a reason like education is big with us because that we're going to differentiate. But you know that if you're not delivering the experience, you know, that you got an issue. So, I mean, it's, it's experience will, will, is like the best teacher. Like you, you have a few of these people go off the rails and you, you haven't communicated effectively. Shoot. I mean, it's, you're, you're messing up. And even to this extent. When we get done, when we, when I want a producer to get a yes or a no, that's all I want. You get me the yes or no in like the, the some particulars and I want my VA team to finish it. I want them to chase down the applications. I want them to chase down the, the routing and account numbers. Now I'm saying they, the system is messaging these people, right? It's just this, the V it's in the VA's hands, but our system is, Hey, look, we still need this. We still need this. We can still

Jack:

need this. How many times do producers have to chase people down these days because we're busy.

Carey Wallace:

Yeah, so Jack, you know, we've talked a lot and I think we've also presented a couple places where we're talking to the same exact group of people and, you know, not every agency owner thinks this way. I think you said it was a partner or whatever said, you know what, why don't you just like do the accord for him, man, just sell insurance. What the heck? Obviously, for you, it's paid off to make this investment, but that's not an uncommon thought process to say, hey, listen, if it's not broken, keep doing it. I get 90% retention every single year. I'm a good, I just don't think that's possible to continue to operate in this environment where we all expect immediacy. I just don't know how long that's going to last. You know what I mean? Like I asked myself that question so very often, and that's why I'm saying you were super innovative before it was actually cool to be innovative, right?

Jack:

It's funny. I used to think like, man, am I just the idiot out here trying some stuff? Right? You never know. But look, it's funny too, because there are people that, that you come across Carrie and Lindsay in your short time in the business, you've, you've been in put in positions where you're going to see certain people, they're old school models and they make, they run. fantastic agencies, they're highly profitable. I mean, the people are making way more money than they deserve. And I'd say that as someone who makes more money than I deserve, like I'm not that smart. Like I'm not a doctor, I shouldn't, I mean, we're all very fortunate. I personally have a theory and it's kind of the premise for everything that I do right now. I believe that in the next five years, the industry changes. I believe that there's, you know, time that I've been an agent, there's not been one single time that I know of that a carrier has come in and actually removed stuff off your plate or given you more money.

Carey Wallace:

Right, that doesn't happen.

Jack:

No, it doesn't. And they're just going to continue taking it away. And I personally believe that, and this is sad to me, but look, it's, we can cry about stuff or we can figure out how to profit and grow, but I believe that the day of a $2 million in premium, $3 million in premium, $5 million in premium agency, I think their days quote unquote are numbered to an extent because if I'm doing my math here, even at 5 million average, 10% comp. that's half a million dollars of revenue. You're, you're probably paying three staff members. Am I along the right line there, Carrie?

Carey Wallace:

Oh for sure, absolutely

Jack:

I mean, so payrolls aren't decreasing. Your margin is going to decrease. And then when the carrier starts coming down and this is coming, I think, Hey, we want you now more involved with claims. Well, how can I afford to bring on a claims person if I'm already stuck? You know,

Carey Wallace:

Absolutely.

Jack:

so I, I believe that into carriers are wanting more. It's harder to get contracts. I mean, when I first started national general, you could raise your hand in a contract with like hit it. Like you can just reach up and they were throwing things. It's hard to even get a contract now from what I understand. So I don't think, you know, aggregators are coming into play and some of them are really, really good and offer something other than just an aggregation of. premiums, here's some resources. And I think you're going to have older agents that are perpetuating. You're going to have people who have a vision and who are willing to listen. When you buy an agency, it's not easy. Like,

Carey Wallace:

Oh, you're leading me to my next question, my friend. Like, we're going there for sure. 

Jack:

Yeah, so it's not easy. So you got to be willing. Like I say right now, I'm ready to, I have the capacity to do some deals. 10 years from now, I might not want to do that. I might have the capacity, not the want to. So, you know, that's the future of the business, at least that's what I'm banking on. I might be wrong.

Carey Wallace:

So I do want to ask something about that because here's the deal. Like, if anyone's ever heard me speak, I talk about growing by acquisition versus growing organically are two very different beasts. And most people have a strategy for both, as long as they are positioned to have a grow by acquisition strategy. Not every agency can. And there's this gap forming where you are going to become the agency that it will be acquired versus the one that is acquiring. And part of that differential is thinking differently about your staff, thinking a bit differently about technology, thinking differently about your overall philosophy, it becomes really difficult to have the margins to acquire if you are not thinking differently because you can't compete and you can't find that scale. So I know that recently you've probably done a few acquisitions. Tell me how technology played a role in those either had it go really well or it made it challenging. Would you mind talking to that for a little bit? 

Jack:

Yeah, no. So it's, it's funny. I, I'm one of those that right now, and you see this more than I do, Carrie, but like right now, if you own an agency, you can sell it for basically what you want to within

Carey Wallace:

Yep.

Jack:

reason. I think those, those days are changing because now money's not as cheap as it once was. So you've got to, whereas in the past, maybe I acquire an agency and look, if I can just make it run ho hum, awesome. You know, after my debt service is down, maybe, maybe I'm making a little bit on the deal, like, but margins are very compressed. Whereas I look at it and go, Oh, you got no technology in a, in a world. I look at that as, um, I'm buying a fixer upper in like in real estate. I know how to fix your systems and processes. If you have a 20% margin, I really feel like I can come in and make it 30, make it 40, whatever the case is. I feel like that if we implement some processes and some strategies, it's not hard work. It's most of the time it's lipstick and rouge, just like, you know, painting a house. So

Lindsay Wallace:

Mm-hmm.

Jack:

I think the people acquiring in the upcoming years, they've got to be really mindful of the use of technology and how that can enhance the experience for that customer because we're not the easiest distribution channel to work with. So what is your value? If your value prop, and this happens, is that you have my cell phone, your value proposition is not good. If you think your value prop is that you can get a quote to someone really quick and save them a lot of money, you're not going to be in this very long. There's got to be something else that you're able to do and being a, having systems processes, technology come in overlay. Own an agency. Oh, I think that's it. I mean, I bought two different agencies last year. One of them, not much technology at all, but it had a staff member that was engaged and working her tail off and yeah, awesome. So coming in, my challenge with her was trust me and let me implement technology, let me make changes, not just technology. I need to make some changes and having some, I mean, look, kicking and screaming. to an extent, but now when I go and look at the reports, last year was her best year ever in new business. That agency code with our biggest carrier grew for the first time in five or six years. So

Carey Wallace:

Hmm.

Jack:

I know what we're doing works. The other one I bought was literally, it was a cashflow deal. There was no staff was going to be remaining. I bought it using a Warren Buffett valuation method. It was like, here's free cashflow and I think I can make it work. And even if the retention is horrible, I won't lose and it'll be a good experiment. Cause it was a small book. I wanted to have the experiment so that I would one know what to do and what not to do. My biggest profit on that deal isn't the money, it's the knowledge that I gained. I now know the next time how the deal, like not the deal structure, right? I mean, the deal structure was all right. It's the... the, how am I marketing that? How am I, am I keeping the name or am I not keeping the name? I look, I like my brand, but does it matter if you're in an area that no one knows you to have a guy with a beard?

Carey Wallace:

Great.

Jack:

Right? I mean, someone the other day called the agency and aside, which I never thought this was the case. He was like, I see your beard. That's a sexist thing. You must not want to have females as clients. And I was like, what? Like it wasn't to me. It was actually talking to one of my female staff members and she was like, I mean, no, he's a nice guy. But

Lindsay Wallace:

Hehehe

Jack:

anyways,

Carey Wallace:

That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard. 

Jack:

I know. And then we, so we cyber stalked him and found him. My wife did, cause she was like, what? Cause she knows how the type of person I am. She was like, you know, she takes offense to that. She looked him up. He's got a beard. It's just not a big beard. So

Carey Wallace:

Yeah, he just has beard envy for some reason.

Jack:

exactly.

Carey Wallace:

What, I mean, but here's the deal. Plenty of women like beards. I'm not a hundred percent sure what the heck that means. I think the only thing that I would counter to you is yes, there is this impression that anybody can sell their agency for anything they want. There are a lot of buyers out there, but here's what I'll tell you, Jack. If you're not innovating and you're not able to operate profitably and your agency is not transferable, I disagree. You are going to think the market will pay you something and you will be wrong because the buyers like you are saying, ah, here's the deal. It's a fixer upper. I'm not paying top price. Like that market is kind of gone with the interest rates to where they are. I'm going to pay you what's fair or I'm going to move on because there are going to be more and more agencies available that don't wanna innovate. I mean, that's the reality. And right now there is more demand than there is supply. I don't know what happens when the supply goes up. I mean, the reality is, you know, all baby boomers will be at retirement age in the next five to seven years or something. I'm pretty sure it's five to seven years. Imagine how many of those are not innovating and want to have an exit. So... That's unfortunate because here's the deal. There are a lot of agents that are innovating. We sat in a room where two people raised their hands and said they knew what a virtual assistant was. That scares me. I just moved to another room where 99% of the agents are actually using virtual assistants and they're talking about bots. They're talking about, um, they're talking about a lot of things. They're automating their systems. They're thinking about it differently. They're automating their marketing. They're very specialized in what they do, and it's driving growth and performance and scale to put them in the acquiring seat. Like there's, that is the reality, but that group is kind of small right now. You know, that is not the mainstream America. That is not your mainstream agent. It is the agents that are thinking about the future, the ones that have 30 plus years ahead of them. I know you don't, but you've been thinking about that way while you had 30 plus years ahead of you, right?

Jack:

Yeah. Yeah. And look, it's, I, I long for there to be a day where I can walk into a room of independent agents and start saying stuff and then look out there and they're, they already know what I'm talking about. I would love that.

Carey Wallace:

Yeah, yeah, we're not quite there yet. 

Jack:

Like I would love to then segue me. Oh, okay. We can go deeper now. Let's do it. You know, but even, even, you know, but that's how it is. So.

Carey Wallace:

Yeah. Yeah. And there's a group, like, don't get me wrong. There's people out there doing it. But I love being able to talk to you and talk about the journey and the fact that you shared, like, we tried some things. We even tried it, stopped and tried again. And my staff knows I'm going to solve problems that are real for them, make their lives better. And they trust me that I'm not going to exhaust them. So it's a journey. It's not an overnight thing, right? Well, Here's what I'll, here's, I want to leave with one thing. So I know you're part of a new effort. So I'd love for you to give a little bit of information about what this 101 Western labs is and how it will impact technology, agent driven. You want to give us a little bit of why you're involved and what they're about and, and what agents can expect from that.

Jack:

Yeah. So, um, big eye North Carolina, I ANC North Carolina. I honestly, hat in hand, I joined three years ago, maybe. And realistically I'd never been a member. I was always like, what are you going to do for me? I can get, you know, somewhere else. Cause that was what I thought. And I remember all be coming to my little dungeon in Clemens, North Carolina, where it literally was just one office and him sitting down is like, You know, really wanted to get you remember like, look, man, no offense. I appreciate it, but I don't know that there's anything y'all can do for me. He said, there's not anything that we can do for you, but I need you to do something for the industry. And I was sitting there thinking, wow, I mean, way to go, I'll be like, put me in a, put me in a corner, right? Why, why don't you? 

Carey Wallace:

Hahaha

Lindsay Wallace:

Hehehehe.

Jack:

Um, and, and, and at Donald man's like, you know, it's been, the industry has been very good to me. So I joined. And then the next thing I know is, Hey, and this is right before COVID. I think it was like, Hey Jack, would you mind coming to Raleigh? We've got a little thing going on and we'd like you to, to do a presentation of your stuff. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I don't, I'm not a speaker. Like that's not my jam. Like I don't know how to do that. Um, but I did it. And then he asked me again and I think anytime he needed someone who's like, you want to talk? I was like, all right, whatever. Um, so anyway, so, so fast forward, you know, I got to sit, uh, I got the honor of sitting on like an, uh, some sort of strategic planning thing for the big guy. And this has been two years ago. And right after that, I got a call. I, we're, I'm from the same hometown as a, as a wonderful gentleman named Bobby Salmon.

Carey Wallace:

Hmm.

Jack:

And he said, he knows my family. He was like, you opposed being on the board? And I was like, I mean, I never thought about

Lindsay Wallace:

Hehehe

Jack:

1. I think it was maybe two days later. I think I get a call from another gentleman who's on the board. Hey Jack, so, um, you're on the board now. Um, and I was like, what? Like. How does it even, so anyway, so fast forward on the board. And then all because of me last year sometime and was like, Hey, look, we're going to start as it. So our big eye is, is unique. There are a lot of good big eyes out there, but our big eye is a little unique in that we have a great leader at the helm. We, we actually have good resources from a financial standpoint, so we can try things. So over the years we've invested in insurance startups and insurance. things to try to help the independent agency force. And so I'm sure there's been investment mistakes and investment wins, all that good stuff. So they started looking at insure tech. So that's the big word, insure tech is a dirty word. And Aubie's like, well, why shouldn't we just start our own insurance accelerator? And I was like, what's an accelerator? I mean, that's odd. And still to this day, I don't know that I have a good definition for it. But what- The theory was, is let us bring people in who are way smarter when it comes to technology than any agent is, because we're not smart. But where we've seen things fail in the past because the agent didn't have a hand on it and say, that's not going to work.

Carey Wallace:

Right.

Jack:

The accelerator for us is our opportunity to take people who are really, really smart, who have great ideas and help mold it to things that will actually be useful sitting in an agency. of any size, right? Cause something's really, really cool, but you can only do it if you are a hundred people, you know, instead of the one or two person shop. So the accelerator one-on-one Weston Labs is they named it because one on one Weston Boulevard is the address for the big I and in Kerry, North Carolina. So we have some marketing geniuses on there. I hope Lindsay didn't come up with that name and I'm, was that you? It's…

Lindsay Wallace:

That was my name…

Jack:

It’s wonderful,

Jack:

Lindsay.

Lindsay Wallace:

That was my name.

Jack:

It's, it works well. Oh I dont know. Um, but so, so anyway, so listen, we've got to, we've just gone through the pitch phases, um, with a lot of cool technologies and some of them were cool and they won't work in our space. Great. I mean, they'll work somewhere else. Um, but our goal is to bring these people through that and they call it a cohort, which is another new terminology. So basically it’s cohort means group maybe. So we have a group of people coming in. I think we actually have our first kind of kickoff meeting June 12th of this year. We're, you know, and so we'll go down there. We'll teach them how to alter their product. We'll give them access to independent agents to sort of get in there and make the Play-Doh, you know, whatever we want it to be. And then we're gonna help teach them about, you know, the financials, like, hey, look, when you get a pitch, these are the things that investors are looking for. And then, I mean, the end goal, Some people could look at it and go, well, the end goal for the big eyes to make money off of it. And it's not,

Carey Wallace:

Mm-mm.

Jack:

if we made money because the next Amazon took off, that's awesome. But the win for the independent agents in North Carolina, and in fact, I think the independent agents across the nation is like, this is some stuff that we can implement and look, I'll, I'll tell you this right now, there are a few things. I am re, I don't say super excited because I think it's over overly drawn out in talking heads now I'm super excited about a couple of the technologies because I'm like so simplistic that it's going to be cool. And I can implement it today and solve a problem and reduce time and friction, all that good stuff today. So one on one Western lambs more to come. Great name by the way. 

Carey Wallace:

Yeah I can’t wait. It is a great name, by the way. I think the trick is it doesn't have to move mountains. It's easy. It can solve a problem. It has an agent lens on it because so oftentimes, there are people outside our industry, look at our industry and seek opportunity, but they don't know how it works. I love that 101 Weston Labs is connecting the two. It is for the betterment of the industry. Let's not have a million insurtechs that are... Thought up by people who don't understand the industry. Let's actually do something to help move this forward and make it easy and seamless and make sense, right? Like I think that's the whole idea. How do we make this make sense, right?

Jack:

And, and, and, you know, probably in two or three years ago, insure techs were coming in and all the agencies and agencies, agency forces were really, really scared that these insure techs were coming for our businesses. And let's be honest, that was what they wanted to do.

Carey Wallace:

Right.

Jack:

But they quickly realized that as a distribution force, the independent agent is pretty good. Now, when I look at that, I'm like, But gosh, I see so many that aren't. I feel like our bar is really, really low in this industry from like just a experience standpoint. I think it's really easy for people like me right now to make hay and I'm trying to make all of it that I can while it's shining. But you know, now that we get our hands on that InsureTech, man, we can change and transform fundamentally our day-to-day processes. And I mean, I'm... I'm more excited about our industry right now than I probably ever have been, even with the, you know, what's going to happen with AI, you know, I feel like if I find a reason to provide, if I'm able to provide value, so you have to define what the value is that you bring. If you can define that and bring it, and it can't be speed and it can't be price, that's all part of the mechanism, but you got to figure out what you can do better. It's what's the book, good to great, right? It's, um, What can you do better than anyone in the world?

Carey Wallace:

That's right. 

Jack:

Like I think about that. What can I do and provide, and these tools will help us do that.

Carey Wallace:

That's right.

Lindsay Wallace:

Yeah. So Jack, if anyone who's listening wants to reach out and talk to you about any of the stuff we talked about today or 101 Weston Labs, which is a great name by the way, just saying,

Jack:

It's fantastic.

Lindsay Wallace:

where can they reach you?

Jack:

So the best, if you call my office, my VA's are very adept at screening. Like I, it's, it's tough to get me. Um, but look at, look at our website, allchoiceinsurance.com. Um, you can find me on there. My really simple name, my email is jack.windgate. W I N G A T at allchoiceinsurance.com. It's all spelled out because allchoice.com was taken when I started my. My insurance career, I could have bought it for three grand. And I looked at the other day, it's like 50 now.

Carey Wallace:

Woo!

Jack:

Yeah. So I, I mistake on my part, but yes.

Lindsay Wallace:

Big miss.

Jack:

And for real, like I had a call this morning with someone who was wanting to learn about implementing a VA. I tell people all the time, like I'm available. You can look at everything I got. I'll pull the covers back. I want us all to get better. It's, it's no charge. I, you know, I think if we can all get better together, then, then That's a good thing. And I'm going to learn from you. You're going to tell me what you're doing that's cool as well. And I'll just take it and act like it's mine too. So yeah! 

Carey Wallace:

Well, that is a true statement, Jack. Thank you so much for coming on and joining us and sharing always. I absolutely love watching you speak. I've had been the beneficiary of that multiple times. So I really appreciate it, Jack. And I look forward to seeing you at the cohort.

Jack:

Oh yes. Well, guys, thank you. I believe that you guys are the nicest podcast I've ever been on because I think the world of, of, of both of you guys and I, I'm so excited for Lindsay. Uh, wow. Follow like to, to carve your own way. And with having the mom that you do. And that is a, for real. I mean, that's, I think the world of Carrie and I'm happy for your journey. Lindsay.

Lindsay Wallace:

Thank you. All right, talk to you later. Thank you.